Curse

GourangaPizza · Sep 04, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Lol, you must be proposing it from the 'solo' perspective? Seriously most of the skills you have propose for a buff are quite powerful or good in their current state.

BLS should stay as a lead attack, else it will give sins bar compression and adopt in some skills making the build overall stupidly overpowered with little player skill involved.
The energy cost for Beguiling Haze and AOD can be easily recouped if you bring Critical Eye at 8 Critical Strikes.
And why remove aftercast from Dark Prison? Activating Dash + Black Mantis Thrust too difficult?
HOTO is quite lightweight on damage for a dual attack and it should stay that way since the criteria for KD is so easy to get. No sins will seriously consider this skill unless they are going for some silly 'insta-kill' 1-2-3 chain.
Impale is fine, all the more better if it gets interrupted. They will learn to play better.
I will accept Shadowfang's buff if the "return to original location" clause is removed.
SA, Temple Strike, GSS: Lol? Why not give the sins an insta win button?
Warriors will definitely love your new Death's Charge.
Shadow Refuge: go A/Mo and take Restful Breeze. Brainless assassins already have Dark Escape and Feigned Neutrality to cover their inadequacy.
Your proposal on Shadowwalk is full of win... /ends sarcasm. Elsewhere in TA...

LegendaryBattousai · Sep 04, 2009, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

Lol, you must be proposing it from the 'solo' perspective? Seriously most of the skills you have propose for a buff are quite powerful or good in their current state.

BLS should stay as a lead attack, else it will give sins bar compression and adopt in some skills making the build overall stupidly overpowered with little player skill involved.
The energy cost for Beguiling Haze and AOD can be easily recouped if you bring Critical Eye at 8 Critical Strikes.
And why remove aftercast from Dark Prison? Activating Dash + Black Mantis Thrust too difficult?
HOTO is quite lightweight on damage for a dual attack and it should stay that way since the criteria for KD is so easy to get. No sins will seriously consider this skill unless they are going for some silly 'insta-kill' 1-2-3 chain.
Impale is fine, all the more better if it gets interrupted. They will learn to play better.
I will accept Shadowfang's buff if the "return to original location" clause is removed.
SA, Temple Strike, GSS: Lol? Why not give the sins an insta win button?
Warriors will definitely love your new Death's Charge.
Shadow Refuge: go A/Mo and take Restful Breeze. Brainless assassins already have Dark Escape and Feigned Neutrality to cover their inadequacy.
Your proposal on Shadowwalk is full of win... /ends sarcasm. Elsewhere in TA...

Are you playing the same game as I am? There's a difference between competitive PvP and AB/"Competitive" Missions. Shadow Prison with "Dash + Black Mantis" doesn't cut it anymore. Crit strikes at 8 to recoup the energy from AoD and Beguiling Haze? Really? Cmon now.

M @ T · Sep 04, 2009, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendaryBattousai

You need all the damage you can.

Yes indeed, but you don't want to risk taking Frenzy on a 70 armor player, unless you have Dash. This way you have 2 slots taken.

By taking Flurry you do 2-3 less damage per attack, but your DPS is almost the same as if having Frenzy on, without any problems from double damage or the like and you got bar compression.

With the I-need-to-do-all-the-damage-I-can logic, you would equip Superior Dagger Runes too, but you don't, because +75 Health > extra DPS.

EDIT: When I say 2-3 damage less per attack, I do mean it. The -25% damage from Flurry applies to the normal damage, not the +damage from skills. In a few words you do 7-17 x 25 / 100 less damage(the "-" in the 7-17 is not a minus

)

EDIT: Logic, not login. Stupid hands

GourangaPizza · Sep 04, 2009, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendaryBattousai

Are you playing the same game as I am? There's a difference between competitive PvP and AB/"Competitive" Missions. Shadow Prison with "Dash + Black Mantis" doesn't cut it anymore. Crit strikes at 8 to recoup the energy from AoD and Beguiling Haze? Really? Cmon now.

Lol. So now you're telling me that that you targeting for HA and GvG with these buffs? I fail to see how these updates will 'spicen' up the current meta without it being further dumbed down than it already was. And half of the proposed skills are going to be exploited better by other professions than sins.

headlesshobbs · Sep 05, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I really do have to agree on golden phoenix strike not requiring an enchant to hit. I can't say enough times I've had a heal or something else stripped from me and seeing my whole build become useless as result, plus the buff to one of those removes the enchant I have STACKED on top of it just in case I needed one to cover. Heck playing builds with this in Fort Aspenwood becomes pointless because of those @#$@% turtles!!

LegendaryBattousai · Sep 05, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by M @ T

Yes indeed, but you don't want to risk taking Frenzy...

With the I-need-to-do-all-the-damage-I-can [color=red]login[/color], you would equip Superior Dagger Runes too, but you don't, because +75 Health > extra DPS.

EDIT: When I say 2-3 damage less per attack, I do mean it. The -25% damage from Flurry applies to the normal damage, not the +damage from skills. In a few words you do 7-17 x 25 / 100 less damage(the "-" in the 7-17 is not a minus

)

You don't need to take Frenzy - thats an unnecessary risk when Tiger's Stance is available.

I run all energy armor and sometimes a major rune without worrying too much, so yes I do follow that logic.

@EDIT: You don't need a constant IAS either, Tiger's Stance is better. You need all the damage you can get, which is why I use Vampiric Daggers against all targets (minus Warriors and Paragons). I also equip both Slashing Damage and Piercing Damage daggers in case I notice that my opponent is trying to spec against my damage type as most daggers are Piercing. You need all the damage you can possibly get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

Lol. So now you're telling me that that you targeting for HA and GvG with these buffs? I fail to see how these updates will 'spicen' up the current meta without it being further dumbed down than it already was. And half of the proposed skills are going to be exploited better by other professions than sins.

I am, I don't know how that could have possibly been misunderstood. I don't see how other professions could abuse any of my skill changes seeing as they are almost all tied to daggers only, require critical strikes to work or require high spec into an assassin attribute to be any good. I appreciate the effort though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by headlesshobbs

I really do have to agree on golden phoenix strike not requiring an enchant to hit. I can't say enough times I've had a heal or something else stripped from me and seeing my whole build become useless as result, plus the buff to one of those removes the enchant I have STACKED on top of it just in case I needed one to cover. Heck playing builds with this in Fort Aspenwood becomes pointless because of those @#$@% turtles!!

Thats why I think that making it miss seems like an unnecessary down-side to the skill, and see no reason against buffing it :3

If just some of these ideas get used, I would be happy, not every idea is perfect but it is to be understood that it all needs tweaking. Balance is delicate and requires actually testing these skills as no matter how hard you look at it on paper- it will never beat actually testing it.

M @ T · Sep 07, 2009, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegendaryBattousai

You don't need to take Frenzy - thats an unnecessary risk when Tiger's Stance is available.

I run all energy armor and sometimes a major rune without worrying too much, so yes I do follow that logic.

@EDIT: You don't need a constant IAS either, Tiger's Stance is better. You need all the damage you can get, which is why I use Vampiric Daggers against all targets (minus Warriors and Paragons). I also equip both Slashing Damage and Piercing Damage daggers in case I notice that my opponent is trying to spec against my damage type as most daggers are Piercing. You need all the damage you can possibly get.

The problem with Tiger's Stance is the recharge. Which means you use TS when you are using a spike build with a 20 or so second cooldown. If for instance you are running a Palm Strike build, TS is not a good option. Well, it's a matter of preferance I guess, beauty is in the eye of the beholder now isn't it?

GourangaPizza · Sep 07, 2009, 10:02 AM // 10:02

^ Don't bother speaking sensibly to him, for someone who thinks a 5e 4r +100 damage attack skill that removes 2 enchantment is balanced is clearly not right in the head or maybe a great pull off of a joke.

X Cytherea X · Sep 07, 2009, 10:12 AM // 10:12

i agree with all of the OP's proposed changes. this is exactly the level of power assassins should have.

Gboy Mesmero · Sep 08, 2009, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Looks good, but the only problems i have are with golden phoenix strike and trampling ox

Without an enchantment, an assassin should not still be able to get a free offhand, unless they bring an elite, so golden phoenix strike is fine the way it is.

Also, kd is much more powerful than +damage in my opinion, and trampling ox is fine the way it is.

Like what you did with shadow steps, good job

Master Ketsu · Sep 08, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

/unsigned.

Want to know why?

Because none of your suggestions seriously make assassins more skillful to play. Un-Nerfing those shadowsteps will simply bring back faceroll 1234567 bars.

The only good idea here is to change them all to crit strikes.

M @ T · Sep 08, 2009, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

^ Don't bother speaking sensibly to him, for someone who thinks a 5e 4r +100 damage attack skill that removes 2 enchantment is balanced is clearly not right in the head or maybe a great pull off of a joke.

Bah! Dude, just use Glymp of Sacrifice+Mending and you're done!(No, Mending is not an enchantment., it's something..else)

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

i agree with all of the OP's proposed changes. this is exactly the level of power assassins should have.

Ye, like WE was or MB is right now. Good job mate

X Cytherea X · Sep 08, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Without an enchantment, an assassin should not still be able to get a free offhand, unless they bring an elite, so golden phoenix strike is fine the way it is.

Also, kd is much more powerful than +damage in my opinion, and trampling ox is fine the way it is.

Quote:

Because none of your suggestions seriously make assassins more skillful to play. Un-Nerfing those shadowsteps will simply bring back faceroll 1234567 bars.

weak.

Quote:

Ye, like WE was or MB is right now. Good job mate

yes. or even more so

M @ T · Sep 08, 2009, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

weak.

yes. or even more so

Sorry to say this, but it is apparent that you are biased mate.

X Cytherea X · Sep 08, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

you guys just dont want sins to kick more ass than they already do, which is understandable. on the other hand, true sins like me and the topic starter cannot get enough. MOOOOAR POWAAAAAAA!!!

BlackSephir · Sep 08, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Jesus Christ, your trolling physically hurts my brain.

X Cytherea X · Sep 08, 2009, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Profession: A/N

wtf? you are a false. down with poseurs!

BlackSephir · Sep 08, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Unlike some people, I'm not biased and enjoy actual balance.

LegendaryBattousai · Sep 09, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I've updated and cut some of the changes and made it easier to read/more precise:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb..._Balance_Ideas

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

^ Don't bother speaking sensibly to him, for someone who thinks a 5e 4r +100 damage attack skill that removes 2 enchantment is balanced is clearly not right in the head or maybe a great pull off of a joke.

4 Second recharge is a bit dumb on it; I realized it after reread it. 8 second recharge would be better and less spamable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gboy Mesmero

Looks good, but the only problems i have are with golden phoenix strike and trampling ox

Without an enchantment, an assassin should not still be able to get a free offhand, unless they bring an elite, so golden phoenix strike is fine the way it is.

Also, kd is much more powerful than +damage in my opinion, and trampling ox is fine the way it is.

Like what you did with shadow steps, good job

I cut trampling's change as it isn't that important. Golden Phoenix Strike dealing absolutely no +damage, costing 5 energy giving you a "free offhand" sounds fair if it will allow you to continue your combo. I just think its stupid that you're combo (generally relying on all over your skills not being failing/missing) should end because you don't have an enchantment when you use that skill. I think the downside should be just less damage- not just killing your entire combo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

None of your suggestions seriously make assassins more skillful to play. Un-Nerfing those shadowsteps will simply bring back faceroll 1234567 bars.

The only good idea here is to change them all to crit strikes.

There is absolutely no correlation between the aftercast on shadowsteps and "faceroll 1234567 bars". Anyone who has a keyboard can press buttons and deal damage (see: Mind Blast). The skill that is inherent in Assassins is the timing, target choice, positioning, field awareness and judging if one will succeed if they engage.

If you haven't played competitively (High end GvG), none of that makes any sense to you, but nevertheless there is a difference between a "good sin player" and a "bad sin player". Its quite obvious when in the context of GvG.

Zera Fang · Sep 09, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Death Blossom

Is supposed to be spammable, R/As aren't abusing that, they're abusing the fact that they can spam 1/2 second attack skills continuously. They're better sins than sins are, which is why they are OP and need nerfed.

Quote:

Shadow Refuge

No, sins don't need a 'pre-prot' against conditions. They have "Assassin's Remedy", which works just fine.

Quote:

Shadow Form

Are you KIDDING ME! Combine with Deadly Paradox and you could maintain it constantly in PvE, leaving the sin to destroy mesmers/necros without some extra-class protection. No, you're retarded, go away.

And were you here when sins were just rolling people because they didn't have an aftercast on their shadow steps? It was the worst time to play in RA because it was assured that you would come across at least one of those builds every match and if you didn't have specific protections against it you were SCREWED. No, you're entire ideology here that sins need buffed is wrong. They're powerful enough as is, sure, some of their elites need looked at and fine tuned to make them more effective, but otherwise they're fine. Stop trying to make them into some Hyper-ninja-uber-deadly-lookIpwnedu bullshit.

Completely not signed.